EDDC, Liatris, our MP - posting 2 (a long one)
OK, I feel up to the typing now, here goes (please see the entry below this for my comments on it). It's a long one so get a cup of coffee (and a pencil!):
The covering letter from our MP Hugo Swire:
Dated 16 January 2007 but received today:
Seaton Regeneration
Further to my letter of the 6th December 2006, I have now heard back from Karime Hassan and enclose a copy of his letter of the 4th January 2007.
I should point out that the Holiday Camp is a privately owned business over which no politician of any party has any control.
We must look to the future when examining redevelopment plans for Seaton and I urge all parties to work together to produce an outcome which is satisfactory to both the town's current residents, future residents, tourists and the surrounding local econom.
Yours sincerely,
Hugo Swire
All fine and dandy except for one work in the last paragraph. We are not examining redevelopment plans for Seaton we are examining REGENERATION plans. They are not the same. Unfortunate slip of the pen there.
Karime Hassan's letter (in the public domain):
Dear Mr Swire
Thank you for forwarding me your letter to Mrs Semple outling the points of concern raised with you regarding the proposals for Seaton.
The outline planning application has now been submitted by Liatris Holdings Limited. Much of the information that is sought is included in the supporting documentation. I shall clarify my understanding of the proposals in relation to the points raised in your letter.
Community Facilities:
The proposals include a SUSTRANS terminus (changing room, bike racks, etc) and community facility. I understand this to be a room that could be used as a gym or meeting room 278 sq m is the size of this quoted facility.
There is no proposal for a swimming pool.
The Visitor Centre is proposed as a building of 1,500 sq m (this is the specification set by the Locym Consulting Feasibility Report).
Prior to the application being submitted, I was aware of concern being raised regarding the size of the centre. I trust now the application has been submitted this point is now resolved.
Economic Impact
The loss of bed space capacity is clearly an issue that will have to be weighed in the assessment of the application. The Socio-Economic aspects of the proposed development are assessed in Chapter 6 of the Environmental Impact Assessment. The report states that there are 264 chalets with a 77% occupancy rate equating to 26,000 visitors. The value to the local economy in terms of levels of spend is much lower than the figure quoted in your letter. The basic conclusion drawn by the Assessement is that the loss of the Holiday Village will result in a monetary loss to the local economy but this will be more than compensated for by the visitors to the new Jurassic Coast Visitors Centre. The SUSTRANS terminus and expanded Seaton Marshes are also anticipated to have beneficial impact.
The Council now has the role of assessing the submitted documentation and testing the assumptions. I therefore believe that it is inappropriate at this stage to draw any conclusions,
The letter from Martyn Harrison, Chairman of Hollybush Hotels, included in the report in the support material is important background material. His view is that the Holiday Village was built in a different era and is increasingly an out-dated holiday concept. he believes Seaton should re-launch its entire tourism agenda taking into account changing tastes. He believes in the medium term the business will be forced to close.
Much of the work the Council has been progressing as landowner regarding the Visitor Centre and Seaton Marshes has been informed by the aim of providing a visitor infrastructure that Seaton use to re-launch its tourism agenda. The uncomfortable truth is that at the moment there is little demand for new hotels to serve the current tourism offer - not just Seaton but across the District. We are trying with the Council's land to provide attractions for visitors that may help stimulate demand for hotels. There are no easy answers and this is why we have resolved to pursue with the Rural Renaissance Programme a bid for carrying out a Market destination strategy for East Devon's Jurassic Coast with particular emphasis on hotels and bed space capacity.
Turning to the car parking provision, this is set out in the Transport Assessment Volume 1. There would be 496 new spaces for the retail development that would be available on short term basis for visits to the town.
Hopefully this will go someway to answering the questions raised but in terms of the current application it is premature at this stage to draw conclusions.
Yours sincerely,
Karime Hassan, Corporate Director, Environment cc: Andy Carmichael
Well - do you know what scares me in all that? The fact that Mr Hassan is constantly quoting what the developer says and then says later on that it is "inappropriate to draw any conclusions" and that it is "premature at this stage to draw firm conclusions". Do you find anything in there that reassures you, Seaton resident? It seems that developer's words stick in Mr Hassan's mind much more than those of Seaton residents.
I happen to be able to calculate that the holiday village has 274 chalets (I've stayed there, unlike many of these people, by the way). Let's assume that each of these sleeps 2 people (though some sleep 3 and 6 - I know I have stayed there) = 548 people could sleep there every night. Elsewhere occupancy is given at 77% so that's 422 people sleeping at the holiday camp every night. Multiply that by 7 and that's 2954 bed nights a week. Let's assume that the holiday village is open 50 weeks a year - that's 147,700 tourist bed nights per year.
Now, I don't think there is anything wrong with my maths there - so how does Karime Hassan get 26,000? (Why does he get 26,000 is another story).
We know from Government figures that to replace one overnight tourist you need three day visitors. We know from the Jurassic Coast documents that they consider day visitors a poor substitute for night visitors. So, we would need to attract 147,700 x 3 = 443,100 new tourists to Seaton to replace the holiday village.
How many are we getting? 230,000 for the Visitor Centre and 30,000 for the Wetlands Centre = 260,000. 443,100 - 230,000 = 183,100 lost day visitors or 61,034 overnight visitors.
Would someone check this and see if I have it right? Perhaps we could start with Mr Martin Jenkins, Sales Manager of Hollybush Hotels: 0845 450 596 - he surely wouldn't want to talk down his sales figures would he!
14 Comments:
I can not imagine that even Mr Hassan believes his argument.
Anyone who purchases the land registration documents for Hollybush Hotel will be aware that they have sold Liatris an option on the holiday village. Hollybush therefore have a financial interest in redevlopment.
If planning permission for residential housing is granted on the Holiday Village site then EDDC have given Hollybush an incentive to close the site. Without that incentive Mr Harrison may or may not decide to close the camp. That is his decision. However without reidential planning permission there will be the option for another company to purchase it for tourism. The local plan designated the land for tourism. There may be no demand for new hotels here but the Village is not a hotel - it is serviced accommodation with entertainment.
We can have the visitors centre, SUSTRANS and the megamarsh without the redevelopment but if all the land currently used for tourism has housing on in we will have no tourist trade. In a few years when its non-viable without tourists staying here EDDC would be looking to sell the visitors centre for housing too.
Or we can have planning permission refused for change of use - as the local plan requires. With an increasing demand for accommodation in Seaton perhaps Mr Harrison will change his mind. If not we look for someone else to take over or we look to raise money in Seaton to purchase the land.
Karime Hassan is supposed to be a civil servant. I would like to remind him of the "servant" bit.
Mr Hassan, you are without a doubt dodging the issue. You are misinformed and you are not doing your job properly.
We pay your wages, I suggest you start giving us value for money by using the brain I'm sure you have.
Why is Karime Hassan concerned about Seaton re-inventing it's tourism?
We know what we need - the land that the holiday village is on NOT to change usage into a massive supermarket and residential area.
THAT WOULD INDEED RE-INVENT THE TOURISM BY ILLIMINATING IT.
Oooo I am soo mad at him. He seems to be completley useless.
We want the Jurassic coast visitors centre and the Sustrans terminal, we know we need more tourists.
So why is he telling us we need to get rid of the Holiday Village?
It's like telling the people of Bath "Jane Austen might be popular at the moment, and you get tourists because of that, but it won't be like that forever."
As for Hugo Swire he is simply doing nothing. Yet he is supposed to be helping his constituents. All he is doing is continuing to be mis-informed.
I feel another letter coming on.......
vMaths was never my strong point....but has anyone worked out the size of this magical room that is going to be gym/creche/meeting room?
Please forgive if these calculations are wrong... this room is 278 sq metres which approx 17 metres x 17 metres, (this is approx 50 feet by 50 feet in old money)....my cat would not enjoy a good swing in this space.
Does this space contain loos, kitchen, storage space, and any other useful odd bits always needed in rooms of this sort?
Yours, Splenicus Apopolecticus.
WHERE IS DEMOCRACY?
I too received these 2 letters this morning, and I am still steaming. It will take me a while to respond to KH's one with any dignity, so for the moment suffice it to say that he speaks for EDDC, who are SUPPOSED to be considering these proposals impartially, i.e. looking at all aspects of the plans, which includes taking into account the views of the people of Seaton. It sounds to me as if he has made up his mind, having only consulted the developer! Thank goodness he didn't get away with delegated powers!
As for our elected representative, may I suggest that he visits Seaton, listens to his constituents, looks at the site, and examines these proposals for HIMSELF. Only then can he purport to to understand the issues involved, and make up his own mind!!
Come on Hugo, think for yourself.
Please don't insult civil servants by suggesting that Mr Hassan is one. He is a local government employee, civil servants work for central government.
Tourism everywhere has to change to reflect the demands of its market - as any industry does. I don't have a problem with Hollybush suggesting Seaton tourism will change. I do have a problem with the suggestion that overnight stays need to disappear.
We live in Seaton and we know how busy the local tourist accommodation is. Some of the local b&bs don't want to advertise because they have too much custom already. The Holiday Village was improving its occupancy before the bad publicity from the development. It has no long term future because Mr Harrison thinks he will make more money putting housing there.
If Hollybush wanted to put forward plans to build ecolodges or to introduce new specialist breaks for the birders /geologists /school parties who might be attracted here I'm sure some of us would be happy to get involved. The incomers among us mostly holidayed in Devon long before we moved here - we were the customers the tourist industry should be planning for.
Yes, apart from the obvious show of teflon bling from Hugo and Karime, which I'll leave for others, it appears that Mr Harrison is not studying his market properly. If Warners and Butlins can reinvent the holiday camp niche they're in, why can't he?...um, too busy reinventing football clubs is the likely answer. This camp wins awards, that's a tribute to its staff first and foremost, he should be building on their success and supporting that team. But he seems to be of the old school faith that dictates "get yer money and run John, stuff the punters"
he was reinventing the football club in the hope of selling the land to Asda for a supermerket. Now planning permisison for that has been refused he has reduced his commitment to the club. Sounds familiar, doesn't it.
And to add to mel's comments, Centre Parks appears to have tapped into the more adventure type of holiday which Seaton could accommodate with it's access to river, sea and countryside, albeit on a smaller scale
The buzz word that I haven't seen used so far in this debate is "Stakeholder". I think it is important for the Council and the Developer "if there is any difference between the two", to realise and accept that the "stakeholders" should be seen as all parties with a genuine interest and investment in the future of Seaton. The key to a successful conclusion would then be for All Stakeholders on an equal footing to have their views, fears ambitions and expectations examined and discussed in a fully informed and open debate. I don't believe that Public/Private Partnership schemes should be carried out in shady deals done behind closed doors.
If all parties accept the true requirements for Seatons' Regeneration, which can be seen in Official templates and other successful regeneration projects, then the whole process could be taken forward with all parties on board.
anon 8:37
I quite agree, as purely an interested member of the public, looking at the history in the run up to this application, it would appear that Seaton has been subjected to exactly what your post suggests. Namely that the town council and various public and private bodies have all been held at arms length and proposals about the town have been discussed behind those doors. That's just a precis. In this day and age of mass communication it beggars belief that we have developers and their agents not sitting down in the same room with real representative bodies of the town. This "arms length" and "we know what's best" attitude is something that Machiavelli would be proud of.
In a way, it's because of that blindsiding of public and indeed town council, that SU4S really started...as in...who's speaking for the general public here?
The only representative bod left was the SDT (Seaton Development Trust) and even they were only party to that part of the picture they were allowed to be involved in.
thus the real stakeholders, ie eddc, liatris, hollybush, axe riverside, seaton town council, the sdt and the seaton public...have never sat around the same table either at the same time nor as equal parties...maybe it's time they did, get rid of the TD/Absolute spin machine Liatris and represent yourselves, stop the Il Principe game-theory eddc and lets talk about serious regeneration with the people who live here.
And then the pigs will fly ...
Seriously, the developers must feel that they have EDDC in their pockets. EDDC is now tripping out "developer-speak" even better than the developers themselves (who, come to think of it, are actually silent - just using a front man(Terry Dinham) and a PR company.
I wonder if any of these people have children and whether they would be happy living in Seaton and having their kids at the primary school on the lorry route?
Or showing their kids the concrete jungle a few years down the line and saying "I tried to stop that, you know ....".
I quite agree, archmaster, that actually there has been no chance for us, as the general public, to sit down in a reasonable way with Liatris, and talk about what Seaton wants/needs. Though it is pretty well covered in The Local Plan, and The Development Brief, that has been ignored.
I note that Hugo Swire himself, urges that all parties work together. Sorry, Mr. Swire, there has been no opportunity at all to even see these mysterious developers, let alone discuss anything in a rational way!!
All we get is spin, in fact Liatris seem to need 2 PR companies now!
Would this be the same Hugo Squire urging all parties to talk who couldn't even be bothered to come to Seaton and would only see a maximum of 5 of our representatives on his terms? Ah yes, so it is
Post a Comment
<< Home